У русских матерей в Финляндии отняли уже 49 детей, подсчитали активисты

[Steve]

Сообщение от AnnieGK

Steve, тогда, с учетом местного менталитета растить детей, минимум половина Ирландии останется без детей

может и такое быть, по крайней мере социальные службы сильно заинтересованы в этом...тем более что много лет назад здесь уже заправляли социальные службы совместно с церковью, и детей отбирали у родителей, а потом они нередко становились жертвами насилия этих сотрудников социальных служб и церковников....

[Dubliner]

Сообщение от alica

я не знаю всей истории в подробностях , поэтому мне сложно судить об адекватности наказания...
тем не менее предполагаю, что полиция просто так в доме не появится...

видимо, что-то все-таки там произошло...
человек в здравом уме оставил 2-летнего ребенка одного в доме?

спасибо соседям, что вызвали полицию...

не так давно в России или Беларуси, не помню то4но,
мамаша оставила 2-х детей в доме,- ее сбила машина, - дети умерли от жажды и голода...
там соседи оказались не настолько бдительными...увы...

Неадекватно. Вот вы выйдите в ванную на 5 минут, а у вас детей за это заберут. Формально вы тоже их оставили одних. Где та грань, когда надо забирать, а когда можно сделать предупреждение?

Почему в обычной криминалистике, сначала преступившего закон предупреждают, потом дают может условно и только при рецидивах начинают сажать (зависит конечно от содеянного, но всё же). Почему тут такого нет? С какого перепугу надо сразу всех детей забрать? Тем более если они даже не пострадали.

Может сразу ввести растрел за проезд без билета, как было в Германии в 30-40-х годах? А что? Не будут без билета ездить.

[Fuegos]

Сообщение от Dubliner

Почему в обычной криминалистике, сначала преступившего закон предупреждают, потом дают может условно и только при рецидивах начинают сажать (зависит конечно от содеянного, но всё же). Почему тут такого нет? С какого перепугу надо сразу всех детей забрать? Тем более если они даже не пострадали.

Именно так тут и есть. Никто не приходит просто так детей забирать.

[Steve]

Сообщение от Fuegos

Именно так тут и есть. Никто не приходит просто так детей забирать.

это вам так кажется. Спросите у Кипера или у тех 49 русских матерей в финляндии,

[Yapi]

Сообщение от Steve

это вам так кажется. Спросите у Кипера или у тех 49 русских матерей в финляндии,

На тот момент ребёнок не был сыном Кипера, так что пример не в тему. Причём вы это знаете, но продолжаете упорствовать и сознательно искажать факты.

То что происходит в Финляндии не имеет никакого отношения к Ирландии.

[Fuegos]

Сообщение от Steve

это вам так кажется. Спросите у Кипера или у тех 49 русских матерей в финляндии,

Ё-маё! При чём здесь Финляндия? Давайте уже другие местные случаи, кроме дела Кипера обсудим.

[Steve]

Ireland:

HSE SOCIAL WORKERS ADMIT THEY BREAK THE LAW

We have much evidence of where HSE staff ignore this law and most others and even their own guidelines and they have the nerve to complain in public to the media that complying with the law and the guidelines will cause them hardship and stop them doing their job properly! They then admit that even if they were to do the paperwork AS WELL it wouldn’t protect a child

Yet we are to be asked in a referendum to give these same people – who blatantly operate outside the law and who admit are themselves not competent to properly protect children – the power to take any child away from a Family without any finding or evidence of significant harm to the child.

There is almost a tidal wave of the HSE muscling their way into Families founded on Marriage without any lawful reason.

Currently we have one member of our Family Integrity and Marriage Reconciliation (FIRM) Self-Help Group where one of the Spouses refused to have their daughter injected with the deadly HPV vaccination. In retaliation a social worker entered the Family home and without the consent of the Family and without any adult being present “interviewed” one of the children, a twelve year old! This interview was then used to get a Safety Order against the parent who objected to the HPV vaccination.

We have another member where a parent disciplined a child using reasonable chastisement that lashed out at him because he “dared” turn off the TV when the children were watching unsuitable material. The Gardai were called to complain about the parent and no action was taken. Despite that the HSE continue to harass the Family and hold so-called “Child protection Conferences” in their absence where they tell teachers of the children and their GP that the children are victims of physical and emotional abuse and ask these people who have had dealings with the Family to tell the HSE of any suspicions they might have had in the past about the Family, especially of the Christian stands! These “conferences” have the effect of branding within the community any parent or family who holds traditional views.

We have another case where one of the Spouses had a stroke and was in hospital for nine months. A social worker had a “chat” with the children whilst pretending to help out and asked them if the remaining parent had ever smacked them. When the HSE found out he had once smacked one of them the HSE first got a Barring Order against the Husband and then when the disabled mother obviously couldn’t cope on her own had the three young children put into Care. Despite the schools and doctor saying he was a great father, when he complained at what was going on the Court made the Care order for twelve years until the children were eighteen to teach him a lesson for pointing out that the HSE had acted unlawfully throughout.

Where Spouses are duped into using the legal system the first thing a judge does is to make a Section 20 Order under the Child Care Act despite this being unlawful in a private law matter. This gives the HSE a foot in the door of the family home and inevitably the Family and children end up being supervised by them.

Where a social worker succeeds in getting orders against a family the social worker is given the role of “lead” co-ordinator. For this she is given extra authority AND EXTRA MONEY!!!!!!!!!

The stories we hear are of social workers effectively putting a gun to the head of the more vulnerable Spouse by threatening them that if they do not “co-operate” and tell of some sort of abuse by either of the Spouses the children will be taken away permanently.

http://untoldstoryout.wordpress.com/...-breaking-law/

Steve добавил 09.10.2012 в 18:33
А вот коментарии о социальных работниках в Канаде:

Rhonda Lee Bailey is a Salmon Arm, BC, Canada, social worker for the Ministry of Children and Family Development. She has fabricated "evidence" and controlled professional access in order to abduct two infants from this loving couple. How many times she has done this, we do not know. Her superiors aid her in this aberrant behaviour because, frankly, the Ministry's primary source of income is billing the government $90,000 per year per child that they take into custody. She's a great soldier for the Ministry, but a lousy public servant.

I believe tha at least 90 percent of child removal cases are fabricated by MCFD in order to maintain their jobs and demand higher operational budgets. It's beyond imagination that MCFD costs us almost $1.4 billion every year, exactly the amount of the annual BC budgetary deficit. Appalling and disgusting. Over a billion is spent outside the MCFD on lawyers, "shrinks", foster and group homes, psychotropic drugs, adoption agencies and adoptive parents and God only knows what else.

[Newlook]

Вряд ли это повлияет на ход референдума, но свою позицию можно выразить тут

[Steve]

UK:

pedrow left an annotation (18 July 2012)


Dear reader

For the past year and a half my 3 daughters have been been in foster care while the social work dept make up enough reasons to have them adopted out, despite jumping through every hoop they put in front of us. We even signed a contract with them outlining their expectations of us and vice versa.We upheld our side of the agreement while they breached theirs. We went to a childrens hearing where the decission was made that they were to have regular sibling contact, but as yet our two oldest daughters have only seen their younger sister only once in the past year and a half. Is there some reason why they are allowed to choose which rulings to adhere to, or are they just a law unto themselves.
I was in a meeting one of these times where the decission regarding child protection was being considered; there was a woman from the local police station there and a whole load of social workers, the school nurse and our health visiter. No one there had ever met us before except the school nurse and health visitor, who were in descent about the need for child protection, just a little help as my partner was just out of hospital after her second major heart operation. The social worker had made an allegation of drug missuse and gave that as her reason. The health worker produced a letter from the doctor who made the allegation stating otherwise and that the social workers concerned had co-erced him into making false allegations and when pressed about it wrote back vindicating us. All this was said, and evedence provided in front of the police officer sitting there had commited a crime and she sat there and done nothing? At the end of the meeting the people who had never met us before said there was a need for protection and the ones who worked with us on a regular basis said there was`nt! outcome? child protection case. And all because i asked for a little help when my partner at 27 years old, after 2 major heart operations, a stroke, cardiac arrest, internal organ failure and a pacemaker implant.
whats social about that? and the only work they have done is to ensure we never see our kids again.




Dear Sir or Madam,

Having been appalled at the amount of abuse I have found having
stumbled across this and other sites, I was rather hoping that
things had changed over the years, sadly it appears not.

Please provide all information that has lead to this decline in
children services and answer the following FOI requests.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a_...

Can you please provide details of how many complaints received
about unlawful practices of Judges and Council SS Legal Team
(children social services) , barrister's etc Cafcass Legal teams
etc , regarding Children taken into ‘care’ by Kent County Council.

Relatives who put themselves forward are considered guilty until
proven innocent, and demands are made that they jump through
assessment hoops, when the House of Lords made it quite clear that
grandparents only have to be good enough parents. The system as it
stands is no better than a 'child trafficking ring.'

It is appalling that in Family Court’s so many children are being
taken into care based on mere opinion of – so-called professionals
and placed for adoption with strangers rather than relatives.

In 2007,local authorities in England applied for 8,173 care orders.
7,624 orders were made. 336 applications were withdrawn, 290 "no
orders" decisions and 21 orders were refused.

In other words, the judgement of the social workers working for the
council was so good, they were only refused by the judge 21 times
(0.27%)

More importantly 93% of the time the judge merely rubber-stamped
the care orders.

House of Lords - Down Lisburn Health and Social Services Trust.
Baroness Hale of Richmond. Judgement

34. There is, so far as the parties to this case are aware, no
European jurisprudence questioning the principle of freeing for
adoption, or indeed compulsory adoption generally. The United
Kingdom is unusual amongst members of the Council of Europe in
permitting the total severance of family ties without parental
consent. (Professor Triseliotis thought that only Portugal and
perhaps one other European country allowed this.) It is, of course,
the most draconian interference with family life possible.

Although kinship placements are supposed to be the preferred option
in this country, only 1 per cent. of social worker-instigated
placements ended up with kinship carers, compared with 45 per cent.
in Denmark, for example(EVIDENCE given in parliament 16th June 2008
by Tim Loughton MP shadow minister for children)

Thank you.

Peace be with you.

A Freeman

Steve добавил 09.10.2012 в 18:46

Сообщение от Newlook

Вряд ли это повлияет на ход референдума, но свою позицию можно выразить тут

Подписывать наверно не стоит, так как там требуется указать все свои личные данные, но на референдуме однозначно нужно проголосовать против, и они как раз коротко обьясняют почему:

Petition:

WE THE UNDER SIGNED CALL ON THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND TO VOTE NO IN THE 2012 31ST CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ON 10TH OF NOVEMBER 2012.

TO VOTE YES WILL REMOVE ALL RIGHTS PARENTS HAVE UNDER ARTICLE 42.5 AND HAND THEM FREELY OVER TO THE STATE.

CHILDREN WILL NOT RECEIVE ANY RIGHTS UNDER THE PROPOSED REFERENDUM THE STATE WILL RETAIN AUTONOMY OVER ALL CHILDREN.

STATE WILL HAVE POWERS TO ADOPT CHILDREN VOLUNTARY WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THEIR NATURAL PARENTS.

CHILDREN WILL NOT HAVE A VOICE IN ANY MATTER THAT INVOLVES STATE INTERVENTION.

ALL CHILDREN CURRENTLY IN CARE BY COURT ORDER OR OTHER WISE SHALL BE ADOPTED OUTSIDE OF THE STATE TO PRIVATE ADOPTION SERVICES FOR THE HIGHEST PRICE IRELAND WILL BE THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT WILL HAVE LEGALISED CHILD TRAFFICKING,

WE ARE ASKING THAT EVERYONE WHO HAS A VOTE TO VOTE NO FOR REFERENDUM 2012.

Steve добавил 09.10.2012 в 18:54
Protest at British Embassy Over Snatched Slovak Children

The recent attention received by the zealous actions of British social workers who see no issue in taking children from foreign nationals and putting them up for adoption has caused an uproar in Slovakia to the extent that the Ministry of Justice has openly condemned the actions and threatened to take Britain to the European Court of Human Rights over the issue.

Many Slovak children (estimated at around 30 now) have been torn from their parents in recent years in the UK, with the child snatching of two young boys two years ago providing the impetus for the Slovak public to organise themselves on a social network and plan a demonstration in front of the British Embassy at 4pm today.

In an article in the Telegraph at the weekend, journalist Christopher Booker also refers to the unprecedented move where a foreign government is considering contesting the British social system at the ECHR, with the Slovak government’s decision to pursue action resting also on the Appeal Court decision today in a case involving two young Slovak boys.

Boorova has been battling in vain for over two years to get her beloved Martinko (4) and Samko (3) back from the British social services system. A special report was broadcast about their case on TV Joj on Sunday, causing a swarm of discussion and outrage on the internet.

The family had been living in Britain since 2004 and their problems all started when they took their kid to the doctor to get a genital infection checked. Social workers moved in and claimed possible sexual abuse by the father. Before they knew it, their children had been wrenched from their home and eventually taken away for fostering in a traumatic scene involving 3 police cars, social workers, screaming children and a shattered and hysterical mother and grandmother, who were being held on the other side of the street as the children were being forcefully removed.

The tearful documentary on the Boor case raises accusations that the motive behind such cases is big money, because one child feeds a whole chain of people in the social services network. In this case, the Telegraph cites various court hearings, four social workers, seven specialist doctors and psychologists, 16 interpreters, 13 contact supervisors and dozens of lawyers.

The article in the Telegraph points to the unorthodox nature of the system in Britain, which is unlike anywhere else, citing just one recent case in Norway, which was swiftly resolved by the two governments involved. On the Slovak case, he notes how it has been drawn out with all kinds of experts, interpreters, contact supervisors and lawyers wrangling over a family that till a few years ago had functioned normally.

The Slovak authorities did not react properly or on time, at least to battle to have the boys delivered to their grandmother in Slovakia. Earlier this year a UK court ruled that the children are to be put up for adoption. MP for Birmingham John Hemming has taken a special interest in the case and even set up a campaign group called Justice for Families. Hemming, who is offering also similar families help with legal representation, criticises the way the system works and says he was astonished to see just how many foreigners are on the other end of the child snatching.

Mr Hemming helped prepare the appeal that will be decided on today and he is contacting other countries whose nationals are experiencing similar problems (he has info on around 1,500 cases already).


http://www.thedaily.sk/protest-at-br...ovak-children/

[Steve]

Вот несколько комментариев тех кто подписал петицию:

Patrick O'Sullivan · Tralee

The article refers several times to the "best interests of the child" but who is to judge where the best interests of the child lie. In my opinion the best arbiter of where a child's interests lie is his or her natural parents. What the new constitutional provision proposes to do is take the right away the right of the natual-born parent and put it in the hands of faceless bureaucrats or self-appointed quangos! Ireland must say no.

Thomas Carty

Google Ivana Boorova to see how this works in the UK... the state cant look after the Children is IS trusted with, why give them power to take more? Adoption is a big racket in the UK...

Could it happen in Ireland? It did before, remember the Mgdelenes? Those children taken by Church and State were exported to rich folk in America and other nations abroad... for money.

How are you voting in the Childrens Referendum? My understanding is that it gives Irish Social Services the same powers as the UK's, and given the recent Ivana Boorova scandal its something in very cagy about doing.

If Irish social services done their damn job under the existing law, we would have few problems. Im voting NO, and when in doubt, chuck it out.


Petition signature comment by Sean Irsach:

The very reason for this amendment was the 'Ryan report'. It detailed some horrific abuse carried out by the catholic church in Ireland while children were wards of court . The proposed amendment makes no reference to the 'Ryan Report', but yet makes out it is the family who is at fault when a child should be taken into care. The legislation used since the inception of the Republic of Ireland was british legislation, that legislation is still used today to take children into care. It is the care that is of concern in light of the horrific abuses meted out by church and state. This amendment has nothing to do with children's rights it is to do with the government taking full control of all children in Ireland to do as they please with. A child's inherent rights can never be taken away. There are still over 400 cases in the High Court waiting to be heard regarding the abuses of church and state, some waiting over 35 years. While this is on going the courts can not make any recommendations to prevent further abuse while in state care. Over 235 deaths with over 500 missing children in the State Child Care Industry. Changing the wording will do little to stop abuse of children.

Petition signature comment by Corneilius Crowley:

The State must recognise and support natural attachment parenting to truly protect our children. It cannot take the place of parents, and it MUST support stressed parents and those parents who themselves were abused as children, to heal and recover, so as to break the cycle.

Adoption tends to become a BUSINESS FOR PROFIT when run by the State - as the Magdalene Launderies revealed, as the Industrial Schools revealed, as the Asylums revealed.

And a warning : THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT FULLY DEALT WITH THE HISTORICAL ABUSE STORY IN SUCH MANNER AS TO HEAL AND LEARN. IT IS WAY TOO EARLY FOR ANY ACTION BY THE STATE OTHER THAN TO HOLD THOSE BODIES AND PERSON WHO ABUSED AND COVERED UP FULLY ACCOUNTABLE, BY MEANS OF PUBLIC INQUIRIES LEADING TO CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS IN ALL CASES.

[el_ka1]

Сообщение от Fuegos

Я с вами не спорю. И не собираюсь доказывать, что в системе нет дыр и она идеальна. Но при этом мы имеем право отстаивать свои права и права своих детей, тем более, что "буква закона" на нашей стороне. И её стоит бы знать.

Фуэгос, я как юрист говорю, "буква закона" ПОКА ЕЩЕ на нашей стороне. Они же напрямую говорят, что закон менять будут. Раньше в Ирландии считали, что мужчина не в состоянии в одиночку воспитывать девочку, и ее отдавали монахиням на воспитание. А потом посчитают, что работающая мама не может быть хорошей мамой. Критериев четких нет, все очень расплывчато, поэтому получится "закон, что дышло, куда повернул, туда и вышло". И меня, как юриста и как маму, это очень беспокоит. Может, моя профессия меня параноить заставляет, конечно. Но это уже сложно изменить

[Fuegos]

Сообщение от Steve

может и такое быть, по крайней мере социальные службы сильно заинтересованы в этом...тем более что много лет назад здесь уже заправляли социальные службы совместно с церковью, и детей отбирали у родителей, а потом они нередко становились жертвами насилия этих сотрудников социальных служб и церковников....

Ага, соц.работники вместе с представителями церкви втихую готовят план превращения Ирландии в маленькую китайскую империю. Все забранные из семей дети, будут отправляться на заводы, фабрики и поля, сажать картошку!

А если серьёзно, то какая выгода забирать детей в стране, где детское пособие собираются сократить до 100 евро в месяц на ребёнка, а фостер семье нужно платить 200 с лишним!

Fuegos добавил 09.10.2012 в 21:33
el_ka1, знаете, ваше размышление заставило меня вспомнить размышление одного приятеля, который говорил, что не хочет иметь детей, потому что боится, что они могут вырасти наркоманами или преступниками. При этом сам парень из приличной семьи, воспитанный, образованный и приятный в общении.

Я, конечно, понимаю, что родители всегда переживают за своих детей, особенно, когда всплывают истории, подобные финнской и английской. Но уж оставайтесь хорошими родителями своим детям и возможность иметь дело с соц.службами будет сведена к минимуму. Тем более в Ирландии!

[Elena H]

Среди моих ирландских знакомых есть, по крайней мере, двое человек, кто в свое время был в младенчестве забран государством у матерей и отдан на усыновление в Штаты. Просто в то время государство решило, что незамужняя мать не может воспитывать ребенка. Вот решило и все. Забрали и продали.

Референдум предлагает отвести родителям детей роль инкубатора. Нарожали государству граждан, а дальше отвалите. Государство лучше вас знает, что вашим детям во благо. И решать это будет какое-нибудь чмо в ботах из соцслужбы.

[Oliya]

Сообщение от Elena H

Просто в то время государство решило, что незамужняя мать не может воспитывать ребенка. Вот решило и все. Забрали и продали.

Ну то что с детьми внебрачными и их мамами тут ужасы творились, это теперь широко известно.

Oliya добавил 09.10.2012 в 22:18

Сообщение от Fuegos

Я уже писала как-то, напишу ещё раз. Отобрать ребёнка в Ирландии у биологических родителей (это чтобы опять не вспоминали случай qiper-а), состоящих в официальном браке, практически невозможно. Даже если родители наркоманы и алкоголики, и даже, если детей бьют. В первую очередь работа будет направлена на нормализацию семейной ситуации.

Кто-нибудь знает случаи опровергающие вот это?

[Steve]

Сообщение от Elena H

Референдум предлагает отвести родителям детей роль инкубатора. Нарожали государству граждан, а дальше отвалите. Государство лучше вас знает, что вашим детям во благо. И решать это будет какое-нибудь чмо в ботах из соцслужбы.

+100%

Steve добавил 09.10.2012 в 22:23

Сообщение от Oliya

Кто-нибудь знает случаи опровергающие вот это?

Читайте выше, на английском, там множество примеров

Steve добавил 09.10.2012 в 22:24

Сообщение от Fuegos

Ага, соц.работники вместе с представителями церкви втихую готовят план превращения Ирландии в маленькую китайскую империю. Все забранные из семей дети, будут отправляться на заводы, фабрики и поля, сажать картошку!

У вас проблемы с английским? Иначе мне не понятно почему вы сознательно игнорируете все те линки вверху, которые я привёл лично для вас.


There are still over 400 cases in the High Court waiting to be heard regarding the abuses of church and state, some waiting over 35 years. While this is on going the courts can not make any recommendations to prevent further abuse while in state care. Over 235 deaths with over 500 missing children in the State Child Care Industry.